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Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 2:48 PM
Subject: Incline Club V5 LR #16
Every once and a while you read something that really sheds some light on something. I have always been fascinated by how much different I feel from one week (or day) to the next when running near or on the summit of Pikes Peak. I have also noticed others that one day seem to have a great run and on another day have blue skin. The Incline Clubs own Tony E (Yes, the club weather forecaster) has put together a paper on the highs and lows (pressure that is) of running on Pikes Peak. It turns out that depending on the weather the perceived altitude at the summit can vary from 13,410 -14,810 which is huge!!! Think about being on the top and feeling like you are only at the Cirque:-) Or those days where you were so dizzy you thought you were going to die:-( Tonys paper will shed some light on that www.skyrunner.com/story/pikespeako2.htm.
Sunday, March 11, 8 a.m. meet at Soda Springs Park.
Head out El Paso Blvd until turning left after crossing under Hwy 24 and then right into the Garden of the Gods. After running by the Balanced Rock turn left and do an out/back on Rampart Range Road. Front of the pack should shoot for the shooting range. 2.0-3.0 hours. Turn around where needed.
Note: the total time has been revised down a half hour for the RRR run. I think this is important because it is an easier course so we will be covering more mileage and we dont want to get pounded to death 2 weeks ago several commented about sore quads. Remember hurt runners do not make for fast runners!
Dawn H writes:
I must say Dr Rocket is a RIOT! Very, very entertaining since here I am in Arizona, stuck at my desk during tax season, never running into anything nearly as fascinating as FROZEN HORSE POOP! Our weather is way to warm to freeze the stuff but you should see it sizzle in the summer!
Sid R writes:
Sorry to hear about the broken arm of Rick P. I remember about 20 years ago I broke a small bone in my wrist. Of course, this was a hot Illinois summer, and I had a cast from my upper forearm to the middle of my fingers. And I just couldnt stop running. I hope Rick has different cast arrangements than I had, because the inside of that cast turned into some sort of gum that even Dr. Rocket would have difficulty identifying. It was not pretty. And it was not comfortable. Trying to stop running is not comfortable either. Ive had a significant curtailment of my running recently, and its depressing!! I tried to build a treadmill but thats another story. Hang in there, Rick, youll be back!!
Matt C writes:
A mistake on my part had me leaving out a top 10er in the Winter Series. They asked that I not post it here but that does not change the fact that the total now stands at 12 top 10ers! And to the person who did it great run:-)
Jim H writes after his first club run:
Felt good to dig into supper and really NEED to eat. Brought back memories of 3-4K calorie dinners, (for such a skinny guy you sure can eat!) yum.
Tim E writes:
I too have continued my running streak every day. Right now Im in Albuquerque for Intel work, and there is good running here. In April I go to Israel for Intel work. Do you know if there are good places to run in Jerusalem?
(Matt C adds: The first week of March has dropped two from the streak list watch for a shorter list in April)
Tom K writes:
Laura L and I managed a PR on the Ute-Waldo-Longs-Barr route this past Sunday by over 20 minutes! We normally take close to 4 hours to do this training run, but managed to finish in a little over 3 hrs and 30 min. We had been doing the Winter Series and been going out slow, and I guess we felt that now that this was over we could afford to go out a little harder. The decent trail conditions also helped a bunch. At the high point on the Waldo loop I stopped for a moment to practice my calligrapee (alas, the ink petered out before I could complete the work) while Laura continued on. She tore down the trail at an uncharacteristically fast pace for her on a downhill and took me a while to catch back up with her. Anyway, it was nice to return to Soda Springs Park for once and have people still there to greet us.
(Matt C adds: Yes! I was psyched to hear the number of people setting PRs last week including Kees G who got a sub 3 on the UWLB loop. Train hard - get fast! A formula even Dr. Rocket would have a hard time simplifying.)
Richard B writes:
With the bright sunshine and little wind, the Waldo run was frankly, uneventful. On runs like this my thoughts turn to other things, mainly what predators might be lurking out there in the woods watching all the tasty morsels running up and down the trails. If I could put myself in the place of (say a mountain lion) what would they be thinking as a runner passes by. In sizing up their prey what factors influence whether they take up pursuit or not, Size? Color? Speed or Scent?
Hans Z writes:
Well, I finally managed to participate in one of the runs, proving Im not just a phantom writer.
The Clubs meticulous record keeping quickly told me that I was not even on the list. Seeing all the familiar faces had me a little worried that I may make a fool of myself. During runs I only see their back sides, so I was worried Id find the right trail to follow once left behind in the mud.
The weather was perfect. As anticipated I soon fell behind but could catch glimpses of Jamie and Keith on the few straits. The downhill leading to the crossing of Hwy 24 helped me catch up with Jamie and Keith. I hung with them from that point not wanting to go the wrong way on the Waldo loop. About 3/4 up we caught up with Don McCann who was out on a Sunday stroll enjoying the scenery chatting away with another fellow. Once we had reached the crest and started going down again I made a pit stop, had a jell pack and drank some water and chased after my little group. Once on their heels again the pace was a trifle slow for me and running downhill I prefer clear vision so on the first opportunity I passed and let gravity dictate the pace enjoying the rolls in the trail back down to the road crossing. By then Ute Pass trail was a lot softer and muddy but more fun running down than struggling up on the way out. Thanks for the friendly reception, and the challenge you all provide. Hope to do it more often.
John Q writes:
Boy, that hill up to the water plant was a killer! Made me feel like I was REALLY training, though! Im not sure I know where to go to get to Long Ranch Road; I ended up on some logging road that just sort of gradually disappeared into a single-track trail, then into nothing. I must have done about an hour of backtracking and trying new roads, but they all seemed to dead end, so I just gave up and came back in the way Id gone out. Maybe we could get Larry M or Kees G to mark ALL the turns?
And now, Incline Club boys and girls and every thing, its once again time for Ask Doctor Rocket, where each week we feature a perplexing running related question [this week we get two for the price of three] that requires rocket science to answer. Ask Doctor Rocket (hes got a PhD... in Rocket Science).
Mike K asks:
Yo, Der Rocketmeister, how much horse power does it take to move a 170 pound mass 13.3 miles up a 11 degree incline in 3.5 hours? Also, how can one go about computing ones own horsepower rating? We all know that a certain MC has a high HP-to-weight ratio. This ratio is probably the key factor in predicting finish times.
Yo Mike-ee, wassssup?
Yeowee kazowee, a word problem! Dr. Rocket hasnt seen one of these since he took the rocket drivers exam at the Space Academy. Talk about moving mass, ever try to parallel park a space shuttle? The answer to your question is fairly straight forward, but shall be left as an exercise for the Incline Club student. Ha, just kidding. I will provide the best answer that rocket science can provide, without the use of advanced mathematics, but first a commercial announcement.
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WARNING TO THE NUMERICALLY CHALLENGED: We are about to discuss some fundamental concepts of physics and spew up a bunch of numbers, all of which are distinctly lacking in humor value, unless of course you are a rocket scientist.
Now first, a little background. What is horsepower? Noted Scottish engineer James Watt (1736-1819), who gets credit for inventing the carpet steam cleaner, developed the concept of horse power in his pioneering investigations at the local pub. He assumed that an exceptionally powerful dray horse could lift 550 pounds (lb) a distance of 1 foot (ft) in 1 second (sec), and could perform work at this rate more or less steadily during a working day (with a 5 minute doo-doo break every hour). Horses of a lesser quality required a longer time to do the same amount of work. The quantity that interested Watt was power, defined as the rate of doing work. Thus, Watt gave the name horsepower, denoted hp, to the standard rate of 550 foot-pounds of work per second (hp = ft-lb/sec). A little known historical fact: Watt early in his life had aspirations of becoming the Scottish Fell Running Champion, but was forced to give up those dreams when stumbling home late one night from the local pub he severely twisted his ankle on a piece of frozen dray horse poop.
How much horsepower then does it take to move a 170 lb mass [weight, actually] 13.3 miles up an 11 degree incline over 3.5 hours? To answer this without the aid of higher math (using our fingers and toes to count is OK), we can make some simplifying assumptions, like ignoring wind resistance for example (think aerodynamic thong). In the simplest case, the amount of work you do over 3.5 hours (= 12,600 sec) is dependent on your weight (170 lb) and the vertical distance you have to lift it. For the Pikes Peak Ascent, this vertical distance is around 7,815 ft. If I use your 11 degrees, 13.3 miles, and some simple trigonometry, I calculate a vertical distance of 13,400 ft. Starting at the elevation of Manitou Springs, that would have you finishing at close to 20,000 ft altitude! So lets use the Ascent vertical gain for our hp calculation (this works out to an average slope of about 6.4 degrees). The work you do to lift your weight over that gain in elevation is 170 lb multiplied times 7,815 ft, or 1,328,550 ft-lb. The required power is the work divided by 12,600 sec (3.5 hours) to get to the top, or 105.4 ft-lb/sec. Since there are 550 ft-lb/sec per hp, the required horse power to get 170 lb up 7,815 ft in 3.5 hours is 0.192 hp (the power divided by 550).
So, what horsepower is required to move an MC type of runner at 118 lb up 7,815 vertical feet in 2 hours 1 minute? The work required in this case is 118 lb multiplied times 7,815 ft, or 922,170 ft-lb. The power to do this work in 7,260 seconds (=2 hrs 1 min) is 127.0 ft-lb/sec. Finally, dividing this by the 550 ft-lb/sec to convert to hp, taking care that our units are correct lest we crash into Mars (a little rocket science humor), the horsepower to move 118 lb up 7,815 vertical feet in 2 hrs 1 min is 0.231 hp. This is over 20% greater horsepower than for the 170 lb runner! Why? How can this scrawny little runner at 118 lb have more horsepower than a beefy 170 lb runner? You might guess that MC is wearing a specially designed turbo-charged race thong. He might be, but thats not the reason for the higher hp. No, the reason for this 20% greater horsepower is very likely due to his improved mechanical efficiency. And that, my Iron friend, is why we train to improve our efficiency! If you had the same efficiency as MC, and remained at 170 lb, in theory you could run the Ascent in 2 hours 54 minutes! Yeowee kazowee!
Hey, where did everybody go? Whats the matter, its only rocket science?!?!
Go iron your running shorts Mike-ee, eat another bowl of oatmeal, and keep on training.
Bis wir wieder laufen,
Herr Dr. Rocket
Richard B asks:
Dr. Rocket, two questions:
1. Does a mountain lion prefer their meat sweet, salty, spicy, bland or just the plain old sweaty BO type?
2. With a mountain lion approaching from a distance of 500 meters at an angle 38 degrees from the horizontal, how fast should a runner be going to delay the inevitable and how many seconds before that contact occurs?
Richard Deathly afraid of mountain lions Buell
Ah springtime, when a young mans fancy turns to thoughts of... becoming lion lunch. Most runners I know would be thinking about sex, eating food and drinking beer (not necessarily in that order), not being eaten. There is really nothing to be afraid of, unless of course you are confronted by a actual mountain lion. Yes, there is a non-zero probability of encountering one of these critters on the routes we run, but common running sense dictates that you should ALWAYS run with someone who you know is slower than you. However, in the event that you happen to be running alone (or are the slower runner) and encounter a hungry lion, what are the chances that you just happen to be on its list of food groups allowed in the New and Improved Atkins Diet for Mountain Lions? This isnt rocket science, so to answer your first question, I consulted with Professional Thingologist Marvin the Martian Perkins, acclaimed maven of the syndicated series Mutual of Omahas Wild Thingdom. Dr. Perkins says:
Though cows can be a much greater threat this time of year, mountain lions also warrant some respect when youre out thrashing through the woods like a lame deer. Nothing works up a mountain lions appetite more than a good pre-meal jog. How do they like their runners? The big cats on the whole prefer their meat on the rare side, but like most IC members, they will eat just about anything as long as theres a beer to wash it down with.
So there you have it, straight from an expert. Now to address your second question, if a mountain lion approaches from a distance of 500 meters at an angle of 38 degrees from the horizontal, the speed you should be going to delay the inevitable is exactly: zero meters per second, relative to an Earth-fixed reference frame. Here are some tips for dealing with the situation. Go out hard, when it snarls...
1. Stop running
2. Try to back slowly away from the animal
3. Dont make eye contact
4. Do make yourself look bigger (OK guys, dont get carried away)
5. Yell, make loud noises
6. Make faces at it, tell it a joke
7. Offer it your PowerBar
8. Grab a stick or branches from a tree, and if it starts to attack...
...hope to God that Scotty beams you aboard at the last second before the beast manages to get its claws on you. Unless you have sharpened sheet metal screws on the bottom of your shoes, or some other weapon of mass destruction with which to protect yourself, be careful out there when running solo on the trails.
Gehen Sie aus hart, wehn es stoss ab verletzt,
Gordon N reports:
On Saturday March 3, I ran the Old Pueblo 50 mile trail run in the Santa Rita mountains south of Tucson, Arizona. This is a run that I have a lot of history with, having run it 5 times previously and race directed it twice. Previously it was done in conjunction with an endurance horse race, and the horse folks took care of getting permission for using the trails, insurance, staging areas, and award catering. But 4 years ago the ride was cancelled.
Duane Arter decided to do the work of reviving the race this year and with he and his wife Julies considerable trail running experience they did an excellent job. The latest incarnation of the Old Pueblo 50 is in many ways a better course for runners than the old route. Trails are better marked, runners aid stations more accessible and better stocked. The course was about 1/3 dirt roads that could be traveled in a passenger car, 1/3 primitive jeep trails and 1/3 foot trail. Elevations ranged from 4000 to 5800 feet with at least 7000 feet of total climb. It was a friendly sized race with 45 starters. Temperatures were in the 40s and 50s all day with lots of sunshine. For ICers this is an excellent winter getaway.
As far as myself I almost had one of the best runs of my running career. I was third place male at the last aid station having led for a quarter mile or so around mile 35. Knowing that I wasnt far back and knowing I could break 10 hours on a reasonably difficult course I started cranking it up. I passed a guy who was walking and looking wiped out at what I estimated was mile 49. Thinking I was in second I heard music playing and figured that must be nearing the finish so I really started cranking. I looked up and to my shock and dismay I found myself running back into the 40 mile aid station. Pulling out my map I realized immediately what I had done. Between miles 47 and 48 there was a spot where the course passed within 300 yards of the course at 37 miles or so. I had missed a turn and found myself following the flags over a section of course that I had run more that two hours earlier. From the 40 mile aid station I was able to shortcut back to the 46 mile mark and get back on course. The stretch that I thought was my finishing kick took some out of me, not to mention the mental let down, so it took a bit before I could get motivated to run again. With a 4 mile or so detour I finally finished 16th overall in 11:06. Dont get me wrong, the course was well marked and I had to suffer the embarrassment of running the farthest off course of any runner in the field.
The race this year has the distinction of being the first open ultra that I am aware of that not only was won by a woman but second and third place also went to women. Although I said that I was third male when I got off course, I had been seventh overall. There were no really strong male runners in the field but there were several women that had won major 100 mile and other ultra trail runs and the men never stood a chance. Pam Reed, a previous winner of several 100s was the winner in 8:58.
If anyone is interested in running this race I will be returning next year, hopefully to find out how fast I can run if I stay on course.
Laila H reports:
Here goes my little story about the New Orleans Marathon, ran on February 4th, 2001:
I ran my last race, which was a 50 miler, in Santa Catalina Island on January 13. Steve & I had signed up for another marathon many months ahead to be happening on February 4th, only 3 weeks after the 50 miler! This time, we were going to New Orleans, Louisiana. I, myself, had not been to Louisiana before. If there is a place to be called sin city this was the place. New Orleans is a city that is not shy to show the innermost sinful thoughts and put them out in the open for everyone to see & experience. But with all of this, we also had the opportunity to experience some of the history of Louisiana. I truly enjoyed the people, the history, the museums, the music (jazz & blues), the food, the bands that you find in every corner; also, we were able to experience the excitement of the Mardi Grass Festival that was coming up to full bloom the day after we left. We also went to several book stores, and even the book stores were very fun to visit, books stacked everywhere from corner to corner... Anyway, my marathon sucked (3:31), I had been feeling injuries coming up since November, which became exacerbated on my 50 miler race. New Orleans Marathon is an easy course, pretty flat, but when my body is injured, it is not a piece of cake. I decided that I was going to run a slow marathon... Maybe this is where my problem resides, giving up too soon before I even start; anyway, by half marathon time, I felt I probably should try to go a little bit faster. By then, I think I had been running too slow to make much of a difference on my final time. I did end up with a negative split (what a surprise!). I passed tons of people on the second half and only one man and one woman passed me at the 26 mile mark (this hurt); but again, I will be making smarter decisions this year on the rest of my races. I will be coming back to running again after being off for 5 weeks (healing) & ready to run with the club with a new set of running goals.
Carol S writes:
Well, I missed running with you guys this past Sunday. But I made the most of it as I was in L.A. for the XVI L.A. Marathon on Sunday 3/04/01. So, I took advantage of the opportunity and participated in the Marathon, as it was certainly one way to get my long run in for the weekend. I finished in 4:45, and was happy about it as this really was a training run for me.
Heres my official splits:
SPLIT_10K HALF SPLIT_30K
1:02:18 2:16:01 3:23:26
Heres the stats on my run, based on the number of finishers.
Age Group (45-49) = place 88/566, top ~15%.
Overall Female = place 1243/5860, top 21%.
Overall Finishers (men and women) = place 5696/15026, top 35%.
1) This was my first and only full flatland marathon. I have never had the desire to run one of these types of marathons as they are predictably in BIG cities and run on PAVEMENT, both of which are HUGE disincentives to a legitimate trail runner.
2) Since I did finally do one of these types of runs, I think I picked a good one. In addition to being one of the premier Marathons in the USA, it was very well organized, supported and executed. The people of L.A. were fantastic as they poured out to cheer all the competitors on, all along the course. It was certainly a cultural extravaganza !!
3) It was the 16th running of the L.A. Marathon, which is exactly the same number of years that I have been running.
4) There were no unpaved trails to run on...but I did take advantage of a stretch of green earth and ran on the grass for a while.
5) We ran a long ways down Hollywood Blvd., so I also took advantage of that opportunity and ran on the sidewalk for a while, over the Hollywood Stars. Along with Elvis Presley and Bing Crosbys Stars I saw the one for my all-time favorite comedian Red Skelton ! I was charged !!
6) I have proved that running for an extended period on PAVEMENT is VERY BAD for the body. I was not particularly tired at the end of the marathon, but I am certain that I was in more pain than when I finished the Rocky Racoon Trail 100 a month ago !!
Happy trails from now on...
Non R R reports:
Tim A reports:
Ok, it wasnt very long. And the run was on the CC track. But, I had a lot of fun at the Hoff & Leigh Triathlon (Feb 24), and recommend it to any one thinking of trying a triathlon.
Im afraid I am neither as funny nor as good a triathlete as Woody Noleen, but Ill do my best. (You can find one of Woodys tales in that other local running newsletter.) The 500m swim was held in the Colorado College pool, which means you really dont have to be able to swim. You could pull yourself along the side if you wanted, or if you are a taller guy like me, you could hop along the bottom. In fact, one thing that kept this fairly low key was that many swimmers took breathers along the wall. Gerald Romero and I and I considerately swam an extra 50m to compensate for our heads being full of air.
The bike portion was everything a trail runner with no obvious mountain biking skills could hope for in a bike race. All trail, all mud, all fun. (Basically, it was the Summer Roundup 12K course, but run from CC.). I even got mud in my mouth, which I would have thought impossible, what with the protective block my foot provides and all. The weirdest part was riding under 8th street on a carpet laid over ice. Much more fun than the carpet in the London Marathon, which covers cobblestone. I will say Matts admonishing to start races slowly paid off. I let the lead pack of half my wave pull away at the start, but I actually caught about half of them.
The most ironic part of the race was getting toasted in the run. It is just not easy to run after riding a bike hard, especially if you have never trained for it. I cant claim the only place Ive run slower miles is on the Peak, but geez, youd think I could have run 2 miles at near my 10K pace. I did kick Amy Vandykens butt though.
All in all, it was a lot of fun, and I encourage all runners who can swim to give one a shot.
3/4/2001 48 people head out the Ute Indian Trail to find Waldo. Lots of PRs were set by those doing the LRR addition with several completing both loops 15 minutes faster than they ever have. Some are already starting to notice how much the club runs are starting to pay off. The perfect weather kept us in the park for a while before heading off for a bagel breakfast. 8 people are now halfway to earning the Incline Club award.
Go out hard, when it hurts speed up...
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